September 29, 2023

On Content material Individuals, Meredith Farley interviews inventive professionals and leaders to get a behind-the-scenes take a look at their profession experiences and switch that into actionable recommendation for listeners. Tune in to listen to from specialists in varied media, and get impressed to seek out contentment in your individual inventive profession.

Episode #12 Abstract

Liv Albert is the creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Speak About Myths, Child!” She chats with Meredith Farley on this episode about analysis, studying, Greek mythology, podcasting, the facility of an amazing story and extra. Hear alongside to seek out inspiration on your personal inventive endeavors.

Content material Individuals: Analysis, Greek Mythology and The Energy of Podcasts

On this episode of Content material Individuals, I chat with Liv Albert, creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Speak About Myths, Child!”. Together with her diploma in English Literature & Classics, she tells historical tales in a enjoyable, witty means. She not solely writes, produces and hosts her podcast, however she’s additionally an writer of two Greek mythology books.

Liv fell in love with Greek mythology round seventh grade, when she noticed a ‘90’s miniseries on “The Odyssey.” Since then, she’s explored historical sources and honed her analysis abilities to convey these timeless tales to life.

“Let’s Speak About Myths, Child!” began out as a enjoyable concept, however Liv shortly realized that it had a lot extra to supply — each to her listeners and her life.

Listed below are a couple of extra issues we discuss in between all of the myths and magic:

  • The significance of giving your self time to follow and enhance.
  • Dealing with feedback and not-so-constructive criticism.
  • Discovering and understanding tales that matter.

View on Zencastr

Thanks for listening!

– Meredith Farley, Host of Content material Individuals

Extra Content material for Content material Individuals

Liv’s podcast: Try “Let’s Talk About Myths, Baby!

Liv’s ebook: Get your intro to the greats in “Greek Mythology: The Gods, Goddesses, and Heroes Handbook.”

Brafton: We is probably not mythological Greek heroes, however we are advertising heroes. Discover out why in our digital advertising publication. 

Meredith’s publication: Try Meredith’s newsletter (additionally known as Content material Individuals).

Podcast Transcript:

Meredith: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Content material Individuals. Tune in to listen to from creatives, leaders, and specialists in varied media. I’m your host, Meredith Farley.

Ian: And I’m the present’s producer, Ian Servin.

Meredith: Hey, Ian.

At this time, we talked to Liv Albert. Liv’s the creator, host, and producer of the extremely popular Greek and Roman mythology podcast, Let’s Speak About Myths, Child. I like Liv’s present. I used to be actually glad to speak to her. For those who’re not aware of it, it’s a twice weekly podcast through which Liv dives deep into the small print of historical Greek and Roman myths and the historical past that surrounded them. She brings a very cool perspective, plenty of humor, sarcasm, and a contemporary lens to those tales. And she or he’s constructed up a very enormous listener face. The present will get tens of millions of downloads per 12 months. We talked to Liv concerning the origins of the present and what she’s discovered constructing such a profitable podcast from the bottom up.

Ian: Clearly, podcasts have been round for some time, however I really feel like so many different issues, they actually blew up throughout the pandemic. So it was tremendous cool to speak to somebody who actually constructed a present from the bottom up and grew an viewers and a neighborhood round it. Podcasts are clearly an excellent fascinating format for content material. And with all the consideration it’s been getting recently, it’s one thing that lots of people are taking a look at. And Liv had so many nice issues to say, not nearly what makes a podcast particular, but additionally what makes good content material and how one can take your individual ardour and enthusiasm to make one thing that’s going to attach with an viewers.

Meredith: Yeah, it was nice to listen to from her on that. So with out additional ado, we hope you prefer it. Right here’s our convo.

Meredith: Thanks a lot for becoming a member of content material individuals and being on this episode.

Liv: Thanks a lot for having me. It’s very good.

Meredith: I’m so excited. I do know we had been simply chatting a second in the past about this, however I’ve been a very long time listener of your podcast. My good friend Brianna truly turned me on to let’s discuss myths, child. And she or he was truly additionally on a later episode of this podcast.

So for listeners who aren’t aware of you, might you share a bit of bit about who you might be and what your podcast is about?

Liv: Yeah, so I’m Liv Albert. I created and host the podcast, let’s discuss myths, child, which is a factor I nonetheless dislike saying in entrance of different individuals and simply the title, not the podcast, clearly. Yeah, I began it about 5 and a half years in the past. I discuss Greek mythology. I retell tales and over the previous few years, I’ve taken to talking with like lecturers and specialists and authors and all these totally different unimaginable individuals concerning the historical world and mainly each aspect at this level. I’ll take something if it options the traditional Mediterranean in any respect. That’s simply mainly my whole life at this level.

Meredith: When did your love of Greek mythology start and what do you assume drew you to it?

Liv: So humorous, I get requested this like actually on a regular basis and I by no means have an amazing reply as a result of it’s mainly that like I’ve cherished it since I used to be a child, however I don’t bear in mind like the place that got here from particularly aside from I used to be a baby. I do bear in mind in grade seven and I say grade seven as a result of I’m Canadian. That’ll come out fairly fast.

I had this trainer who not solely taught us Greek mythology, but additionally he had us watch the there’s like this mini collection from the 90s that like I’m of an age the place after I was in grade seven and for him to point out us, it meant that he had like a VHS recording that he needed to roll a TV into the room and play this and we needed to quick ahead the commercials as a result of it was recorded from TV and all that.

However yeah, it was like this mini collection of the Odyssey and that’s all I bear in mind is like having to observe that. I barely bear in mind what’s in it. I simply bear in mind watching that and have it’s like if it wasn’t the catalyst, it simply drew me deeper into Greek mythology

Meredith: For positive. I believe we’re of the identical age, so just like the previous recollections. I believe I watched that. What’s the title of the man that’s in it? It’s like Armand.

Liv: Sure, yeah, precisely Armand, one thing in lots and like I don’t bear in mind what elements of the odyssey it featured, I simply know, we watched it.

Meredith: Oh my, I yeah, I completely keep in mind that one and I believe that was my intro to Greek mythology as properly, though I didn’t keep it up in the identical means. That’s actually that’s fascinating.

So all proper, myths, I consider it as the unique content material and I’m actually tempted to dive proper into questions on myths as a result of I do know you might be such an skilled, however as a result of this podcast is about inventive work and plenty of creatives are listening, I need to one, acknowledge that you’ve achieved a major success via your content material and two, guarantee that as we go, I’m doing my finest to mine your experiences for actionable recommendation for listeners who additionally may need to create one thing for themselves.

And so first, one factor I’m very interested by is to ask you to share a bit of bit concerning the daily work of me teaming reminiscent of profitable and it could appear to me actually labor and analysis heavy podcast, like what goes into an episode and what’s per week or two in your life usually like?

Liv: Yeah, so first I’d advocate to anybody wanting to do that to not do it the best way that I’ve finished it, which is that I’m now incapable of relinquishing management on so many issues. And whereas I do have an assistant now, she mainly simply does the stuff that I’d have by no means had time to do if I didn’t have her.

So like hiring her simply gave us extra stuff. It didn’t take a lot off of my plate as a result of I’m a multitude. However that’s all to say, yeah, it’s extremely labor intensive. I typically simply always search for ways in which I could make it simpler on myself and I’ve but to seek out them. However mainly, I launch two episodes of the podcast each week on Tuesdays. I do what I name a story episode. It’s the place it’s simply me telling tales from Greek mythology. Or on this case proper now, I’m within the midst of this large historical past collection on Sparta, which is much more analysis intensive in a means that makes me query every thing I’ve ever finished. However for the common episodes, for the Greek delusion episodes, it does require plenty of analysis.

Fortunately, I’m fairly good at analysis now. And one of many issues that’s humorous is I can’t even actually hand over the analysis side to my assistant as a result of every thing I do in analysis, I do like concurrently whereas writing it. So I’ll have eight books open round me, like 10 totally different web sites. And I’m simply studying this stuff and typing the script as I am going. And so these episodes at all times have a script. It sounds actually off the cuff plenty of the time, I prefer to assume not less than, however it’s utterly scripted for essentially the most half. It’s identical to a stream of consciousness scripted. So it nonetheless appears like an individual rambling. However these are like 5 to 6 thousand phrases that I’m writing and researching each week.

After which Friday episodes are both like, I’ll simply learn one thing from the traditional world that’s like a translation that’s within the public area. And thus is like copyright free, or I can be talking to 2 lecturers, specialists, authors and issues like that. In order that requires me to schedule and report and edit these conversations, which is why I generally do the studying episodes, as a result of they’re significantly simpler. So after I must make my life a bit of bit nicer in per week, I’ll do a type of as an alternative. However typically I don’t as a result of I’ve too many wonderful folks that I’ve already recorded with or need to report with. And it simply finally ends up like that. So like I’m recording with anyone tomorrow. And so it, I yeah, it’s plenty of work, mainly, if that solutions the query. But it surely’s clearly finished me properly.

Meredith: Yeah, that’s actually fascinating. As you’re speaking, it’s reminding me a bit of little bit of perhaps like startup founders who’ve created one thing that’s like wholly of them. And even determining how you can in any means divide and delegate feels completely inconceivable. So what it appears like is such an fascinating course of.

So you might be researching and writing in actual time. And that’s for the not, however the scripted, however the simply you Tuesday episode. And you then’re additionally coordinating, researching and modifying the dialog episodes. And that’s occurring in actual time each week. Or do you do a number of forward of time? Like, how do you’re employed that?

Liv: I attempt to do a number of forward of time. However clearly, as a result of they’re so labor intensive, it’s typically probably not attainable as a result of there’s solely so many phrases you may write in per week. And when one episode is 5 to six,000, additionally they continue to grow. Prefer it was extra like three to 4,000. And I simply preserve getting wordier and having an excessive amount of to say in each episode. In order that’s partially on me.

However I’m additionally actually acutely aware, like I’ve adverts in my present and that’s how I pay the payments. However I additionally by no means need the episode so quick that the adverts are overwhelming. So whereas I used to do what I known as mini myths had been like quick, transient episodes. Now I don’t actually assume that I’ve the power to be that transient anymore as a result of I’m too obsessive about all the intricacies within the historical world, like that’s simply include what number of years I’ve been doing this. But additionally I by no means need to launch episodes which are so quick that the adverts develop into excessive. So it’s at all times like a juggling act with that as properly, which wasn’t actually the query that you just requested. However yeah, it’s all occurring in actual time for essentially the most half. And I do attempt to batch put together so typically I’ll try this with if I’m doing a studying episode, as a result of I can do these a bit of simpler. So if I’m having a day the place I can simply bang out a few of these, I’ll, or if I’ve a bunch of conversations, I attempt to edit them in order that they’re able to go. For example, like all my Sparta conversations are able to go now. And I’m working extra on the analysis ones as we go. Sorry, my, I’m making an attempt to not breathe straight into my microphone, however I’m speaking an excessive amount of, my respiratory is troubling.

In order that’s mainly how I deal with these. My purpose is at all times to have like not less than a month ready upfront. However as a result of they’re so labor intensive, and I wrestle with ADHD, that was not an issue till I turned full time with the podcast. And now it’s very laborious to do issues upfront as a result of I want the deadline with the intention to power my mind to do them. So it turns into, yeah it’s difficult, however that’s at all times a purpose. It’s to work forward.

Meredith: Wow, that’s actually fascinating. I’m listening to the Sparta collection for what it’s price. And I completely adore it. It’s so fascinating. And I really feel like while you pay attention, you may really feel like they really feel like laborers of affection and like a real dedication to you being as thorough and complete and considerate as attainable about this. These are actually fascinating ideas. And I’m like, what do you, why do you even use sources? How do you discover your sources for these very complicated and in-depth tales?

Liv: The Sparta ones for one, thanks. I’m glad to listen to individuals are having fun with the Sparta ones. I’ve heard it from a couple of individuals and it truly, prefer it makes a very large distinction as a result of these are like a whole, like me stepping out of all of my consolation zones and speaking about not solely historical past, however this a part of historical past that I’m not that aware of. I did my BA, however I’m 10 years previous now. And what do I bear in mind from it? Not almost sufficient. And so the historical past ones are far more daunting for me and I’m questioning whether or not I’m simply rambling and sounding like I make any sense. However up to now, so good.

However so for the analysis of the Sparta collection, the one means I used to be capable of do it’s that the assistant that I employed final 12 months, Michaela Smith, is one wonderful, however two, she is finding out classics in college. And so she not solely has a brisker grasp on all of this, however she additionally has entry to school publications and college libraries and every thing. So fortunately, like all the analysis, primarily she pulled every thing that we may wish after which put it into a way by which I might then use it. And we’ve been engaged on the scripts collectively lots in a means that we don’t for the mythology as a result of I, it’s simply me storytelling in the intervening time. However for these ones, there’s much more she’s been writing a ton primarily based on her personal analysis and data.

After which I’ll go in and make it extra my voice, my humor, all these various things and like flesh it out with what I need to say and make it rather less tutorial as a result of she’s caught in that headspace, which is absolutely useful for me. And I’ll simply decide via it and alter what I want. So for the Sparta one which’s been fully primarily based on her, however in the case of the mythology, like I’ve now spent so a few years doing this, just like the analysis strategies I take advantage of now versus 5 years in the past are unbelievably totally different. So the place I used to only Google issues and see what I might discover and piece stuff collectively or I had one ebook of Greek myths that I used to be doing that and it was like, a retelling ebook, like a ebook, a scholar wrote of Greek myths slightly than the unique sources. And now I’m like, it’s very uncommon that I’ll use something that’s not a main supply like from the traditional world. And when it’s, it’s this two quantity set that I’ve, which is totally ineffective to anybody who’s simply coming at mythology from a passion standpoint.

And for anyone like me, it’s deeply so useful. It’s known as early Greek myths by Timothy Gantz. And it’s like a supply ebook. Mainly this tutorial went via and picked out each reference to each character in each historical supply. And he places all of them collectively and talks about what’s the identical and what’s totally different and what these bizarre issues are and who stated what and when and he typically has sources which are fragmentary or partially misplaced in a means that it’s typically laborious to seek out that as properly. In order that’s utterly invaluable. There’s additionally a web site that’s like a lifesaver as a result of it compiles plenty of historical sources as properly. So mainly I’ll say I’m fairly acquainted now with the place to seek out historical sources. I’ve so many books and so many various locations the place I can discover them.

So it’s simply plenty of piercing via 1,000,000 totally different sources making an attempt to stay to unique sources or historical sources slightly or, students writing about these sources and it’s fairly wild. However I’ve simply turned it into an artwork at this level and might just about discover something.

Meredith: Yeah, sounds prefer it. Someplace associated to the trailer for the present or not less than it was after I first began listening, which was a couple of years in the past, you referenced, you stated, Hey guys, like begin at this episode quantity. And I believe the message was one thing to the impact of round this episode is while you really feel such as you honed in on how you can inform a narrative and the way we wished the podcast to be.

And one, I discovered that even simply desirous about it now as somebody who’s finished like 10 episodes of a podcast, I discover that basically comforting as a result of it’s like, yep, you bought to do plenty of these earlier than you actually determine how you can do it. However you’re so good at it. Are you able to inform me a bit of bit about what you discovered about storytelling and podcasting from these early days?

Liv: Oh, God, yeah. The factor about podcasts that’s each wonderful and so irritating is that they simply stay without end, regardless of while you recorded them. Episodes I recorded and put on the market 5 and a half years in the past, individuals are coming to them as in the event that they’re a model new factor they’re listening to for good or dangerous. It may be troubling. What you’re referencing is definitely the very first episode of the present has a disclaimer up on the prime. It says round this episode, I acquired higher at what I’m doing, I acquired higher at researching, I acquired a greater microphone, blah, blah, blah. And so I do have that on the very starting of the primary episode. And does it persuade individuals?

No, everybody begins with the primary episode. My first episode is at all times the primary downloads of my whole present, together with I believe it was about one tenth of my whole downloads for this 12 months, which is sort of a reference. So yeah, like 2022, I had a complete of 400 episodes, clearly not launched in 2022. However by the tip of the 12 months, my present had 400 episodes accessible within the feed. And out of these 400, like our whole, I acquired one thing over 10 million, I believe downloads final 12 months. And a million of these downloads was my first episode.

Why are you doing this to me? It will get so a lot better. As a result of lots of people cease after the primary one too, or depart me evaluations the place they’re like, she’s dangerous at researching. And I’m like I informed you that I acknowledged it. I’m higher now. It’s virtually like I’ve been doing this for 5 years, and there’s 400 episodes, like perhaps the primary 5 aren’t the perfect reference factors. Anyway, I really feel very strongly about it. But additionally, they get essentially the most downloads, in order that they’re not getting deleted.

However that’s all to say I began this podcast as a passion, explicitly, as a result of I used to be actually depressed, and I hated my job. I’d gone via a full blown quarter life disaster and stop my profession that I’d labored every thing for and moved throughout the nation dwelling ish, however not dwelling. And so it was identical to I used to be in a deeply messy place, and I used to be tremendous depressed, and lonely, and all I did was take heed to podcasts. And even like we talked about earlier than we began recording, such as you develop these sorts of relationships with the podcasters that you just take heed to, they usually’re like buddies. And that was simply my entire factor. And I began one purely as a result of I used to be like this might be my factor too, like I might simply do that as a technique to go the time to really feel much less depressed, what have you ever.

And that’s 100% why I began the present. And so it was actually piecemeal, it was like, I explicitly keep in mind that in all probability the primary three or 4 episodes, I wrote the script primarily in my telephone’s notes app whereas I used to be not doing the job that I hated, whereas I used to be sitting in my workplace typing and like I used to be so I used to be studying on like Wikipedia and like different no matter different web sites I might get on my mobile phone, on my telephone whereas I used to be like additionally writing within the notes app. So that they had been very simply they had been a stream of consciousness, however in a really totally different means from what I do now. And it was simply thrown collectively and simply no matter got here to me.

And so I believe they’re good. And I don’t assume that they had been dangerous when it comes to like storytelling, however they weren’t as correct as I would love, as detailed, they glossed over plenty of issues. All of the misogynists on the market who hate my present would say that I discussed the patriarchy an excessive amount of. I didn’t actually change that, however I acquired higher at it.

And I believe it’s only a matter of the extra you’re doing it and the extra sources you get to I believe the episodes the place I made a decision I acquired higher at it was after I began the Iliad. And that’s as a result of I used to be studying the Iliad, whereas earlier than I had been studying like books of Greek myths which are written by individuals at the moment, versus the traditional sources. However with the Iliad, I needed to inherently go to the traditional sources and I believe that form of switched one thing for me. And I spotted the worth of being solely or wherever attainable, solely with historical sources, and what that did each for my element and accuracy and so many various issues.

And so yeah, I believe it’s only a matter of it’s simply follow, proper? It’s simply with podcasts, follow stays within the feed without end. Whereas in the event you’re writing a novel, you’re going to undergo 10 totally different drafts and nobody’s ever going to see these. However a podcast, particularly while you’re not beginning it with an organization backing you with producers with editors with all these various things, such as you’re simply beginning it with nevertheless you’re going to start out it. And yeah, like the primary in all probability 20 episodes of my present or follow that everybody will get to take heed to without end.

Meredith: One million individuals a 12 months take heed to and perpetuate.

Liv: Yeah. I truly simply heard from a professor at a college who was like, I simply need to let that I assigned your first episode to my class they usually actually cherished it. And she or he stated all these extremely sort issues. However I used to be like, Oh, God, no, not my first episode. Decide a distinct one. I’m so a lot better now.

Meredith: I’m wondering, do you assume that okay, do you assume they are surely that dangerous? Or do you assume you had been, had been you laborious in your set more durable on your self within the early days?

Liv: So I believe dangerous is the mistaken phrase to make use of when it comes to how I actually really feel. I don’t assume that they’re dangerous. I simply assume that they’re not a great illustration of what my present has been for the final three to 4 years. And I’m happy with what the present is now. I’m happy with what it was again then too. But it surely was a distinct present. It was leisure. It was identical to, right here’s a enjoyable and quippy delusion. It’s going to be 20 minutes lengthy. It’s going to be actually floor stage. You’re going to have enjoyable. It’s nice.

And I don’t assume there’s something mistaken with that. However what my present is now’s an actual deep dive into the traditional world, the traditional sources, the context, the nuance, the historical past, every thing in a means that I like. And I believe lots of people additionally simply favor storytelling. So in all probability these early episodes are finest for them. However I like every thing I’ve discovered and the small print I can go into now and the nuance and the historical past of actually every thing like I’m obsessive about that. And so to me, like I’m simply far more proud. And I believe that my present present is simply higher in all of these respects, however it is sort of a choice factor, in all probability greater than something.

Meredith: Whenever you say historical sources I don’t I’m, are you able to clarify precisely what that’s? I don’t know. I actually know.

Liv: That’s honest. Yeah. I’m going to make use of plenty of phrases which are completely regular for me. So please ask about something. However historical sources, I, so what I imply by that’s the sources that truly come from the traditional world. So I learn them in translation, however they’re from the traditional world. So I’m speaking concerning the Iliad, the Odyssey, Homer’s works, quote unquote Homer, he in all probability wasn’t an actual man. However these are the works that we’ve got his title on. Or the traditional performs, the performs of Euripides and Aeschylus and Sophocles.

These are a few of my favorites to cowl. Euripides is my favourite. He’s the very best. So these are performs that had been written within the historical world, written within the fifth century BCE carried out within the fifth century. They usually simply survive for us to learn at the moment. So the comparability between one thing that was written in historical Greece and survives for us to learn in translation, like the choice is say books of Greek delusion which are written by individuals within the final 100 years. So Edith Hamilton is essentially the most well-known, I’d say. However there are such a lot of, I wrote one, mine is a, is an instance of this, individuals writing concerning the Greek myths, however from our, from now, simply over the past 100 years.

And infrequently what they’re doing is taking a look at a bunch of various historical sources, they usually’re placing all of it collectively. However typically, they’re doing that, after which they’re inserting their very own narratives and generally biases, just like the ebook that I had that I used to be utilizing on the early days of the podcast, I simply discovered, it’s simply known as the Greek myths and prefer it was on sale at a bookstore and I used to be actually broke and doing this only for enjoyable. In order that’s the one I purchased and that’s the one I learn. And I’ve seemed again on elements of it now. And it has all of those utterly invented issues which are typically tremendous misogynist, and it presents them as if that’s precisely what was stated within the precise Greek, the traditional sources, the Greek mythology.

Whereas that is completely a person inserting his personal wild insults to girls which are like not within the historical sources in any respect. So typically while you’re studying these ones, and sadly, they’re essentially the most accessible, they’re essentially the most complete, they’re the best means so that you can discover all the tales identical to an on a regular basis particular person accessing them. However they will typically be tremendous inaccurate when it comes to what we do know concerning the historical world. They usually can typically be, as a result of for essentially the most half, every thing’s been written by males up till very not too long ago, they will typically be actually misogynistic. And also you don’t know while you assume like the traditional world was tremendous misogynistic, however it wasn’t that dangerous. Like this man may even make it worse, which is saying one thing. Yeah, so it’s like that’s the large distinction and why I’m so particular now the place I’m going to be referring to the traditional sources wherever attainable.

Meredith: So you are taking what I understand as a really intentionally intersectional lens when telling and decoding these myths. And I’m curious if, and also you’re answering it, however a query I got here into this eager to ask you was, do you assume that these myths initially spring from a patriarchal heterosexual lens? Or is {that a} extra latter day retelling that we’re nonetheless disentangling ourselves from? I don’t know if that’s clear. Mainly, I’m questioning, I used to be eager to ask you in the event you thought the myths began off as sexist as they appear.

Liv: The primary phrasing or query I believe is even higher. And I utterly get it. So I’m completely going to reply that as a result of it’s a bit of little bit of each in a means that I believe is absolutely fascinating. So there’s going to be lots right here. Mainly, the traditional sources as we’ve got them now had been completely developed in a patriarchal society. Patriarchal, sure, heterosexual, no, which I believe is fascinating. So the time through which these items like say the Iliad and the Odyssey, I’m simply going to make use of these as the perfect instance as a result of they’re additionally the earliest surviving sources we’ve got from historical Greece. So that they’re from concerning the eighth or ninth centuries BCE, a number of the oldest.

So that they had been developed in a patriarchal society. They had been developed round that point. They won’t have been written down till later as a result of every thing comes from an oral storytelling custom. So round that eighth, ninth century, these had been oral tales that had been informed by touring bards. That is why we expect Homer was in all probability not an actual particular person. It was in all probability quite a few touring bards that might journey the Greek world. They’d inform these tales, however they’d sing them their songs set to music.

So it’s not even simply poetry, like they’re completely songs set to music, they’d sing them in entrance of a bunch of individuals, evening after evening, issues would change as a result of there have been totally different individuals singing them. So all of them sung concerning the Iliad, all of them sung concerning the wrath of Achilles, however they’d insert issues, change issues, alter, probably primarily based on the place they had been telling the story to whom, all of this stuff they’d need to like characteristic that area extra closely or there’s all these totally different connections that might make and why this stuff had been always altering as a result of it was solely ever spoken aloud. After which finally they had been written down into issues that we’ve got survived at the moment. So that they had been each developed and written down in a patriarchal society. Nonetheless,

the teams that existed in the identical areas earlier than and influenced the gods that exist within the Greek mythology that we all know had been, nevertheless lengthy, far again, in all probability a great 1000 years earlier than, they had been matriarchal in a means, or we expect that they had been, we don’t have writing, however we’ve got plenty of collectible figurines which are girls which have breasts and every thing. Now we have plenty of people who counsel that they had been usually pretty matriarchal, if not utterly, like they had been, they worshiped goddess far more than they did by the point of the works that we’ve got, if that makes any sense within the Bronze Age and earlier, they worshiped girls much more.

And on their very own there’s plenty of goddesses that had been in all probability developed in that point after which handed right down to develop into the goddesses of Greek delusion, Athena, Aphrodite, Gaia. They initially in all probability had been extra goddess-based after which they simply turned these lesser characters that they’re within the works that we’ve got. Quite a lot of it’s simply primarily based on archaeology, not textual content, as a result of we don’t have, we don’t have tales from that point. We solely have if we’ve got any writing, it tends to be, like, actually sensible what existed within the palaces on the time.

And so all to say, like, all to say they had been all developed in that world, however additionally they have these leanings of goddesses. And you’ll really feel the place these goddesses are available. Aphrodite is extremely sturdy. She is extremely sexually transgressive. She will get to do no matter she desires. And she or he’s married, however she doesn’t, she’s not together with her husband very a lot. She has children with a bunch of different individuals. She is a very good instance of this goddess that in all probability got here to us via an initially matriarchal society and became what we all know of Aphrodite at the moment. And so there’s lots in there. However in the case of the heterosexual facet, that’s, for essentially the most half, one thing that took place extra when Christianity took maintain and that we’re nonetheless pulling aside at the moment. The traditional Greeks weren’t notably heterosexual, however additionally they weren’t gay in the best way that we consider it now. They, plenty of totally different city-states, primarily Athens and Sparta, or Sparta was a bit of bit totally different. I’m going to speak about it in the case of Athens, as a result of that they had this follow known as pederasty, which is tremendous gross.

As a result of what it’s that older males would have a younger man slash boy who they’d mentor, however it was additionally an inherently sexual relationship. And it was, like, it was positively affection-based and romantic at instances as properly. They normally had wives as properly. So there’s this actually, they simply didn’t contemplate sexuality like we did. There’s no notion of homosexual, straight, bi, no matter. There’s simply nothing. It’s simply no matter is occurring. They didn’t marry the identical gender or issues like that. However they positively had sexual relationships. And if girls did, amongst different girls, we don’t actually have it clear as a result of they didn’t actually consider it that means.

They in all probability wouldn’t have seen it as intercourse. So it didn’t are available, however it was in all probability occurring lots. However as a result of it wasn’t penetrative, they didn’t see it as intercourse. And so we don’t hear about it. It’s actually fascinating. We do have the poet Sappho from the Island of Lesbos. She is why we’ve got the phrase lesbian as a result of she wrote love songs to girls. And she or he was a lesbian as a result of she was from the Island of Lesbos. And that’s actually the place the phrase comes from. So there’s that. However she’s a one-off. And lots of people will inform you that her love poem songs weren’t about girls, that she was writing them for a person to present to a lady as a result of they prefer to utterly erase her sexuality, no matter it

was. It’s actually fascinating. However, yeah, mainly, the heterosexuality that we assign to all of that’s positively Christian slash trendy. But additionally it’s simply you must ignore every thing about gender and sexuality. In relation to the traditional world, in an enchanting means, I might go on without end.

So I’ll cease myself now.

Meredith: Now, that’s so fascinating. I need to ensure I’ve it proper. As you’re speaking, I’m virtually picturing a chemistry set. That sounds bizarre. But it surely’s like these historical prototypical myths are, this liquid that then via these totally different lenses of the tradition of the time will get distilled in numerous methods.

So it’s if I find yourself, I believe I’ve the order proper, however appropriate me if I’m mistaken. So Bronze Age, in all probability extra matriarchal, a number of the Greek goddesses that we all know had been in all probability larger gamers and worshiped a bit greater than it’s into the traditional Greeks, the place there’s not essentially a heterosexual lens, however there’s actually a patriarchal lens utilized to the mores of the tales. After which we sadly lose a ton of the traditional texts. After which there’s these Bards in additional like darkish, round, did you say round 800 BCE?

Liv: So the Bards are literally like actually early historical Greece. Oh, okay. And yeah. So and I’ll make clear too, it’s in all probability earlier than the Bronze Age, the place it was matriarchal. However the Bronze Age has a bit of bit extra of it leftover. However the Bronze Age is the place we first get, like, all the foremost stuff that we take into consideration. However there isn’t a, or there’s minimal writing that comes from that point. So there’s plenty of totally different durations in historical Greece. The Bronze Age is like 2000 BCE to 1200-ish. After which there’s this large decline. Lots of people debate plenty of various things about what occurred.

So I gained’t strive to do this. However then there’s like this early Iron Age interval, the place it’s actually transitional. We’re coping with a whole change in writing methods. So the writing that we’ve got from the Bronze Age there are like components that come into the traditional Greek that we all know now, however it’s fairly totally different. After which that’s when we’ve got this emergence of the oral storytelling custom. So we’re speaking like virtually proper after the Bronze Age. After which there’s the Archaic interval, which comes after that, which is like a number of the historical Greece that we consider, just like the Persian Wars. That’s just like the sixth, seventh centuries. After which we transfer into the Classical interval, which is what you actually consider. That’s when all of the philosophers are round. That’s when all of the playwrights are round. That’s when Athens goes to struggle with Sparta. After which from there, it’s just like the hellenistic interval, which comes after Alexander the Nice and all of this, after which the Roman interval. So mainly, like all of that’s patriarchal. Beforehand, there are these goddess collectible figurines that we expect counsel a matriarchal society, not less than in some areas.

However yeah, the storytelling is definitely like oral storytelling of the touring bards is just like the earliest writing or tales that we’ve got now. Additionally, I spotted, so the early Iron Age is usually known as the Darkish Ages. It’s an excellent problematic time period although, truly, as a result of Darkish Ages counsel one thing concerning the individuals when truly what it simply means is a scarcity of sources, which is why we’ve got the Darkish Ages, the time interval I don’t even know, like extra not too long ago, I’m actually dangerous with every thing after BC. But it surely simply refers to a scarcity of sources, however it suggests one thing concerning the folks that finally ends up being dangerous. However in Greece, they name it the Darkish Ages, however it’s truly the early Iron Age interval as a result of it’s not darkish. Now we have writing, we’ve got proof, like all these various things clarify it’s not truly a Darkish Ages. However individuals do generally name it that also. However yeah, that’s just like the early Darkish Ages. It’s just like the Greek Darkish Ages versus a thousand years later, when there’s one other quote unquote Darkish Ages.

Meredith: In order that is smart. Sure. So the oral custom is going on. And that’s occurring earlier than the extra classical period. Is that proper?

Liv: Yeah. Yeah. In order that’s once we acquired just like the Iliad and the Odyssey and a lot extra that we don’t that has been misplaced or by no means written down within the first place. After which the classical interval is the place we get a lot of writing as a result of it’s when the philosophers are coming in, they’re writing a lot stuff. Plato wrote means an excessive amount of. He was excessive. After which the playwrights the place we’ve got so lots of their performs surviving and lots of that we all know are lacking. After which there’s additionally like we solely have three surviving tragedians. So writers of tragedy, once we know there have been so many extra, however solely three like work from three of them survive.

After which there are the comedy writers too, of the classical interval. So there’s simply a lot content material from the classical interval. Whereas within the archaic interval, there’s much less and within the early Iron Ages, there’s even much less. So yeah, it’s simply form of the development of that. However one factor that’s actually necessary to consider is that every thing we have a tendency to speak about in the case of historical Greece from the philosophers to the playwrights to only this basic concept of what we consider for the classical interval broadly. And like that form of influences how we see historical Greece usually tends to return from Athens. Athens was a significant participant in that interval. However they weren’t as large earlier.

They usually actually weren’t just like the be all and finish all of historical Greece is simply that’s the place the writing that not solely the writing that survives to us at the moment tends to return from, however notably additionally the writing that individuals have been finding out for the final 1000 years. And over the previous few many years and centuries, I’d say, individuals are beginning to have a look at issues from different areas. However up till this level, we’re actually closely influenced by Athens. So every thing comes via this actually sturdy ethnocentric lens that influences what we expect. And so Athens was tremendous patriarchal. Athens, girls in Athens, their lives sucked. However we will’t say that with certainty about the remainder of Greece. Their lives had been totally different in Sparta, like marginally higher, however principally simply totally different. After which elsewhere, there’s like much more sorts of query marks. So plenty of what we are likely to say about historical Greece, particularly within the classical interval and archaic too, to an extent, is rather like Athens.

Whereas Athens is a small a part of the bigger Greece, which can also be a great reminder that historical Greece was not a unified place in any respect. They had been at all times preventing with one another. We name them historical Greece now, however it was like a bunch of small states that generally would crew up with each other. However finally, they had been all like particular person individuals, particular person like states, and doing their very own factor, writing their very own stuff, having their very own dialects of Greek, like all that. It was actually broadly unfold out. And we simply now put all of it underneath one umbrella of historical Greece.

Meredith: So for the sources that aren’t from Athens of that point, have they at all times been round and simply of much less curiosity? Or had been these different areas simply a lot much less prolific that we’ve got to attempt to surmise issues concerning the tradition versus Athens?

There’s such a physique of labor we will actually dig in. Like why haven’t we targeted extra exterior of Athens but?

Liv: I’m much less sure about that. That’s extra of a query for academia, I believe, and particularly additionally how a lot exists from past Athens. Broadly, as a result of I’m researching Sparta now, I’ve a greater concept of that. And in the case of Sparta, virtually every thing we learn about Sparta was truly written not by Spartans in any respect. Most of it was by Athenians who had been their enemies. So it’s actually fascinating making an attempt to piece aside what occurred in Sparta. Now we have writing from a few poets of Sparta, however simply poets. So we’ve got a little bit of poetry, however it doesn’t actually inform us something concerning the society. So I’d say it’s in all probability 90% that the work from Athens is what truly survived, primarily as a result of Athens was a spot the place they had been extra involved in writing issues down for survival.

It wasn’t that they had been smarter or extra fascinating, it’s simply that they had been particularly extra involved in issues which are survivable now. They had been the large place for the tragedies, the performs, and in order that’s what survives from there, that’s the place the philosophers had been. After which simply usually, plenty of it’s not coincidence as a result of you may see why, however it isn’t as a result of they had been notably particular. They had been like a powerhouse, however they’re additionally simply involved in stuff that occurs to outlive. But additionally the important thing to all of that is to ensure that one thing to outlive from the traditional world, lots of of various individuals and teams should make acutely aware choices for it to outlive, apart from a couple of actually uncommon circumstances. As a result of the bodily work from, say the Iliad and the Odyssey, the place it was in all probability written down within the seventh century, so like 600 BCE, to ensure that one thing to outlive from that point, it doesn’t simply survive within the kind that existed again then, as a result of for essentially the most half, except it was written all on clay tablets that one way or the other survived, which is unlikely, this stuff could have fallen aside.

And so it tends to be like individuals should have copied them for posterity. Quite a lot of that is available in throughout the Byzantine interval the place that they had all these libraries and the Byzantines had been copying plenty of stuff. So we’ve got the Byzantine interval and that space to thank for many of what survives at the moment. And so like lots over time, so many various individuals needed to make these choices to maintain copying these works in order that they survive. So it’s additionally prefer it was as a result of the Athenians wrote down plenty of issues. After which it was as a result of these totally different individuals had been within the Athenians writing. After which subsequent, like lots of of years later, these individuals had been . So it’s only a collection of various folks that we’ve got no management over having to have determined that they prefer to preserve a factor aside from actually uncommon issues, however actually fascinating ones. So we all know that there have been a ton of Tragedians writing these Greek tragedies yearly, that they had this large theater competition, they usually carried out a bunch of them yearly.

Now we have a bunch, we all know a bunch of names of people that wrote them down, or who created these performs, however we solely have surviving performs from three totally different individuals. East Coast and Sophocles, we’ve got, I believe it’s like between six and 9 performs that survive from every of them that we will learn now. And people gained’t survive. And the identical basic quantity from Euripides survive as a result of they had been taught in Byzantine faculties. So the Byzantine faculty system used them to show their college students. And so we’ve got all these copies that had been capable of survive as a result of the Byzantines, who had been in all probability what they had been virtually a thousand years after, if not like near that, as a result of they had been selecting to check this stuff, they survived for us at the moment.

Aside from Euripides the place he had a bunch of performs the place they weren’t taught at school. So that they’re the performs that like lots much less individuals cared about, they had been much less well-liked, individuals in all probability thought they had been dangerous it’s like all filmmaker or artist inventive now, you’re gonna have works that aren’t very best, and individuals are not going to recollect them or they’re, and it’s not going to be for good causes. And on your sake, for the opposite playwrights, we don’t know what their work was dangerous, we don’t know the dangerous ones as a result of they’re misplaced. By Euripides, we’ve got a bunch that survived as a result of this Byzantine collector had all of Euripides’ performs on these scrolls. And the scrolls every contained I don’t know, a handful, perhaps 10 performs in a single scroll. They had been alphabetical. And one in all his scrolls survives. So it’s like English letters H via Ok, I believe or one thing. It’s like only some totally different letters within the alphabet that this one’s this one scroll survives.

And so we now have I believe it’s like perhaps 10 of Euripides’ performs which are meh, they’re those that individuals didn’t love within the historical world. We’re not finding out in faculties. They’re simply the random performs on this letter group. They usually’re known as the alphabet performs now. And mainly, as a result of this one factor managed to outlive, not deliberately, it was random, we’ve got all these performs that we wouldn’t in any other case have. And we’ve got this indication that not every thing was excellent. However that stated, too, we’ve got these performs that weren’t beloved within the historical world, however are like, so fascinating to check now.

So one in all them is Helen, which I’ve lined on the present. And Helen is so fascinating, as a result of it’s this alternate universe of the Trojan Warfare, the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy in any respect, this ghost model of her goes to troy. And as an alternative, she is delivered to Egypt, the place she simply likes dwelling, ready all of it out for all of that point. And we might not have that play in any other case, as a result of no person cared about it within the historical world. However we’ve got it now. And it’s fascinating and peculiar and funky. And it’s simply utterly random, dumb luck that we even have it to learn at the moment. I’m actually obsessive about the alphabet, if that isn’t apparent.

Meredith: So while you had Emily, of the Fuck Boys of Literature on, and that was the primary time that I actually heard about this. And also you had been speaking about the concept that there’s actually solely like a handful of the best hits that had been actually preserved and survived. However there are such a lot of different texts from this time that we simply don’t have entry to.

And it actually blew my thoughts. However you speaking concerning the different universe Helen of Troy play, it makes me give it some thought. And in 500 years, individuals are like finding out our Netflix cues for all times claims about our tradition. And it’s yeah, these weren’t that good. Nobody was that into them. However we did watch them after dinner generally.

Liv: Yeah, no, there’s simply a lot. And I believe we’ve got this concept that every thing from the traditional world is good and interesting and funky. But it surely’s that’s as a result of that’s the stuff that sufficient individuals determined was good and interesting and funky that it exists at the moment. And at the moment, we don’t take into consideration that as a result of every thing is inherently a lot extra preservable between the web and identical to the standard of books and all these various things, prefer it’s simply so totally different. However again then with the issues that that they had and the writing buildings and the final custom, which was like, particularly with artwork on this means, the custom was to not write it down.

The custom was to only go sing it to your pals. And so it needed to be actually deliberately written down as a result of there was like a objective behind it. However what’s actually fascinating is how we all know all of the issues that we don’t know, as a result of there’s acquired to be lots that we don’t know existed, however it did, however we’ll by no means know. However there’s lots that we all know existed and it’s misplaced. And that’s simply because different individuals would reference it of their writing and their writing survives.

So anyone could be like, so there’s this poet, there’s these two poets the place they wrote a ton, however not plenty of it survives. Pherecrates is one and Simonides is one other. Pherecrates, I believe is the one I’m pondering of the place it’s we all know he wrote a lot mythology, however virtually nothing survives in full. Whereas as an alternative, it’s anyone like, say, Pseudo-Apollodorus was like, Pherecrates wrote this entire story about this and this. However we don’t have it, we all know it existed as a result of apollodorus wrote that it existed. So we like know that he learn it, however we will’t learn it. And I believe truly it’d even be Pherecrates, anyone wrote a model of this story the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy, this ghost of her goes. We all know that it wasn’t invented by Euripides. He acquired the thought from an earlier poet, however not a lot of that poet’s work survives. We simply understand it existed in any respect.

Meredith: Oh my God. Have you ever seen the play Arcadia by Tom Stoppard? It’s my all time favourite performs and perhaps one in all my all time favourite works of literature. And there’s a, one of many essential characters in it’s she’s within the 1800s. And she or he’s obsessed and so saddened to the, to distraction by all of those historical texts that had been misplaced and fires and it’s, and truly in some methods the play is about like humanity coming to grips with the truth that we are going to lose and neglect issues on a regular basis and we’ve got to love reinvent it always.

And this dialog is making me take into consideration that lots.

Liv: Yeah. I take into consideration this stuff all the time. Like I’ve a operating listing of all of the Euripides performs that I do know existed, however I can’t learn and I’m mad about it on a regular basis. However there’s additionally so many large query marks about like variations of tales or one factor that’s come up for me not too long ago is there’s this actually well-known delusion of Cupid and Psyche and everybody thinks of Cupid and Psyche or actually everybody in my circles. It’s a very main story, however the one model we’ve got that tells that story is written by a Roman novelist named Apuleus.

And I believe it’s fairly clear that he made most of it up, however we will’t make sure. There’s no proof that the story of their entire relationship existed in any related means within the Greek world. And so we’ve got to imagine that he made it up. But additionally he might have learn one other factor and developed his story primarily based off of that’s misplaced and we’ll by no means know. Or the little bit of the Trojan Warfare the place the Computer virus exists and the place Achilles, will get the arrow via his heel and we get all that, all of that stuff that’s like essentially the most well-known elements of the Trojan Warfare. None of that truly exists in an historical Greek supply that survives. It exists in a Roman supply. And we all know that he was basing his work off of Greek sources that survived for him, however don’t survive for us now. So we all know the Computer virus and Achilles’ heel existed in Greek mythology and in Greek historical past, however we don’t even have that bodily work.

Meredith: I don’t need this to be a very gimmicky query. However I’d hate getting a query like this for the report. However in the event you solely protect one Greek delusion for the subsequent millennia have you learnt which one it could be?

Liv: Oh, I do know I’ve a solution. I don’t assume it’s like an amazing reply primarily based on a ton of various elements that in all probability must be put into such an necessary query. However I’d simply say the Odyssey as a result of it’s nice. And I like the Odyssey. Yeah. In order that’s my favourite simple go-to. No, Greek delusion, use a Greek delusion. So I’m going to say the Odyssey. Yeah. As a result of in any other case, I’d have stated Euripides play, however performs are totally different. They don’t depend. It’s nice.

Meredith: And with out the Odyssey, you’ll by no means have had your VHS mini collection.

Liv: Precisely. Yeah, I’d have by no means develop into this. It’s nonetheless my favourite Greek epic. Odysseus is my problematic love. He does plenty of dangerous issues and I like him without end. Yeah, it’s all of the Odyssey for me. I do know we don’t have an excessive amount of time left. And I’ve, I’m sorry, I rant lots.

Meredith: I cherished it. And I presume. So I need to speak a bit of bit about Medusa with you. And I do know that it’s one thing that you just talked a few bit. You’ve talked with different visitors and had actually fascinating questions and conversations round. And I additionally know I’m not on Twitter, however I do know you’ve talked about on the podcast that that is one which for you appears to mild up your Twitter everytime you’re tweeting about Medusa.

And I, I don’t know, I’ve at all times been actually drawn to it for some purpose. And I shouldn’t say it for some purpose. I believe there’s plenty of complicated issues about girls’s energy in that delusion. And it actually hits on some archetypal nerves in plenty of methods. So perhaps you would give us a one minute abstract of Medusa. And like, why do you assume it hits such a nerve with people at the moment?

Liv: Okay, I’m going to do it actually, it’s going to be fast. And thus I’ll converse plenty of phrases very quick. So Medusa, oh gosh, there’s a lot. So the earliest type of Medusa is that this man named Hesiod. And he says that she was a Gorgon. He doesn’t describe what a Gorgon was. He says that she’s a Gorgon who was born to Forkis and Keto, who’re like sea monster goddesses or gods and goddesses.

After which he says that she suffered a woeful destiny. She was primarily assaulted by Poseidon and like finally Perseus reduce her head off. And in order that’s just like the earliest type of her story, like primarily all of it. After which like a bunch of various issues change, there’s a couple of totally different variations of it. However the large one which will get picked up is Ovid, who’s a Roman writer, he’s writing in all probability not less than seven or 800 years after Hesiod wrote that earlier bit.

And Ovid has this entire story the place truly she’s this lovely lady and he or she’s a priestess of Athena and Poseidon once more assaults her however in Athena’s temple after which she will get punished by Athena for that her hair turns to snakes and he or she turns individuals to stone. After which once more, Perseus comes and kills her. And so these are just like the fundamentals of it. However what individuals I believe take maintain due to popular culture and so many various issues is this concept that she’s this terrifying monster who’s out to harm individuals and deserves dying by Perseus. However none of that truly exists within the Greek delusion. That was in all probability a minute.

Meredith: No, that’s so just like the bizarre story in that within the telling of it, she’s punished for being assaulted primarily.

Liv: In Ovid. Yeah.

Meredith: Okay. However then prefer it’s there’s this cultural understanding of her as this monster who loves turning individuals to stone.

Liv: Yeah, none of that exists in Greek delusion and actuality in historical Greek sources. So earlier than Ovid and never Ovid, she just isn’t ever proven as hurting anyone. We don’t know that she turned anyone to stone. We simply know that she might.

Yeah, like we don’t have proof that she ever did it. We simply know that like bodily she might and we actually solely know that as a result of her head afterwards turns issues to stone. However till her head is bodily caught from her physique, she doesn’t truly hurt anyone. And Perseus just isn’t despatched to kill her as a result of she’s harmful.

That’s a very widespread false impression. Like he’s not despatched there as a result of she’s inflicting bother or like she’s harming individuals. He’s despatched there as a result of this king of Seriphos desires him useless in order that he can marry Perseus’s mother. And the best way that he thinks he can kill off Perseus with out angering the mom is to only be like, hey, go get me her head, show that you just’re a hero, go convey me Medusa’s head. So it’s purely that he wants the top. It’s not like stopping any hurt or saving anyone. Prefer it’s simply completely randomly picked as a result of he, like this king, thinks that it’s going to kill Perseus to get her head.

However yeah, so like this entire concept develops that she’s like individuals on Twitter have informed me by individuals, I imply males, have informed me that like the rationale she needed to be killed is as a result of she was terrorizing the lands and like her dying alleviated a stress on the earth. And it’s all in your head, dude. And I can see your misogyny displaying like what are you speaking about? Nothing about that exists in Greek delusion. The worst we’ve got is in Ovid the place she is surrounded by statues and the implication is that she turned individuals to stone. However once more, that’s solely an Ovid and he’s already made her a sufferer of assault. Like he already makes her a sympathetic character. So it doesn’t even add something to the argument that she hurts individuals.

Meredith: All proper, perhaps it is a good technique to wrap it up is that I like the Greek myths. I’m a really linear thinker. And one factor that I discover complicated about them is I’m like, the place do I begin? Like, how do I, proper now, it typically appears to me like, it’s like making an attempt to know an eight season TV present by beginning in season 4. So if somebody was like, I actually desire a foundational understanding of the who’s who and the fundamental narrative right here, the place would you set them?

Liv: Oh so the primary factor I inform individuals while you’re coming to Greek delusion is you may’t have that viewpoint. If you wish to truly perceive it from the traditional world, if you wish to perceive it via a totally trendy perspective, however lose all the historical nuance, then you may decide up any ebook of Greek myths. I’d advocate one written by a lady as a result of we have a tendency to have the ability to push apart plenty of the misogyny. Edith Hamilton is fairly good. It’s very previous. So it does have extra of that.

I wrote one, however it’s very floor stage. So there’s books. However the factor about Greek delusion is that again to the oral storytelling I discussed, that’s the means that they meant the tales to be understood. And it was by no means about linearity. It was by no means about narrative construction. It was by no means about mainly you must neglect every thing you assume about what a narrative or a story must be. As a result of that was not the intention of any of those. Like they had been informed to identical to share tales round a fireplace or to elucidate one thing within the pure world or to elucidate the significance of sure areas and cities.

Like each space of historical Greece has some story related them to Heracles as a result of he was just like the hero for all Greece. And they also would all make up their very own tales of how he was related to their tradition. And infrequently it’s 5 phrases. And that’s like an entire story. As a result of it didn’t, it wasn’t about what we consider as tales. It was concerning the total like objective of what was being shared. So I believe one of the simplest ways to know it when it comes to the traditional world is to disregard every thing you assume you need to learn about tales and to only decide up something actually. However I perceive that that’s tough.

So there are like, gods, I don’t know, there’s simply there’s an excessive amount of to know to place it into one simple factor. I believe my present is an effective reference level as a result of you may virtually begin on any episode, so long as it’s not one that claims like half two of three in, within the title. And I’m going to present you sufficient background and stuff. However I believe that the important thing and what I believe makes the best way I’m coming at these myths, notably related for the myths themselves, is the best way that they initially had been meant to be informed, which is that it wasn’t about this construction, it wasn’t about understanding all of it. You can’t have in your head a timeline as a result of timelines didn’t exist.

As a result of these tales had been informed over 800 years. So much modifications over 800 years. So it’s simply not about, it’s not about dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s as a result of that they didn’t care. It was like 800 years of tradition melded into these tales. And so the best way I do it’s story primarily based. So you may simply click on a narrative you need to hear. But additionally, I give sufficient background and historical past and all these totally different variations and why and every thing. So I believe, yeah, I’ve plenty of episodes to take heed to it’s daunting. However I believe that’s a great way to know the way it labored and why as a result of it’s a lot extra fascinating in the event you perceive the why.

Meredith: All proper. That’s fascinating. Is there a selected episode of yours that you just play in the event you simply need to dip your toes and begin right here?

Liv: Let’s say the Theogony, not my first episode, which can also be concerning the Theogony, however I did one final 12 months or the 12 months earlier than the place I went again and I did a way more detailed take a look at the Theogony. And I ought to clarify what the Theogony means. It actually simply means just like the start of the gods.

So primarily, it’s just like the origin story of all the gods. So it introduces a bunch of individuals and the place they arrive from and why and yeah, I don’t know. There’s simply, there’s a lot. There’s an excessive amount of.

Meredith: No, we will discover that Theogony and put it within the present notes for positive. And I’d additionally say I like your ebook. So I’ve your ebook. It’s known as Greek mythology, the gods goddesses and heroes handbook. Illustrations are attractive.

I discovered it a useful reference level. I’m positively like at instances like, wait, who is that this particular person? And so I, for what it’s price, I’d actually advocate that to you. It’s actually been useful and simply so enjoyable to web page via for me.

Liv: Thanks. I believe it’s in all probability, I consider it as being so floor stage and no matter. Additionally, I used to be commissioned to write down it. However that’s why I discuss it like that. And I adore it to be clear. However yeah, I do assume it in all probability is a very good start line as a result of additionally the entire commissioning side of it from the writer was that they wished a ebook that additionally connects in like the place you may know sure characters from popular culture, which is an effective technique to get a grip on what you’re studying and what names you may bear in mind or acknowledge and issues like that. So all of that’s within the ebook.

And it does cowl plenty of kind of the introductory stage myths and just like the gods and, why try to be and what their form of main tales had been. So yeah, perhaps my ebook is an ideal introduction.

Meredith: All proper thanks a lot, Liv. We’ll hyperlink within the present notes every thing you gave us a trillion nice references. We’ll attempt to get in there. And I really feel like I might have picked your mind about these things for hours. You’re such a font of knowledge. Thanks for the way beneficiant you might be together with your information and your expertise.

Liv: Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. I hope I talked sufficient about content material slightly than Greek myths, however I might in all probability discuss Greek myths without end.

Meredith: Thanks.

Liv: Thanks.

Meredith: Okay, everybody, we hope that you just loved our dialog with Liv as a lot as we did.

Ian: Subsequent week, we’ll be speaking with one other podcaster and YouTuber Caroline Winkler.

Meredith: Caroline has a very inventive, fantastic YouTube channel with greater than 400,000 subscribers. We talked to her about what it’s prefer to have a profitable profession on YouTube and her new podcast, Not For Everybody.

To help this present, you may fee, assessment and subscribe. These issues make an enormous distinction. And in the event you’d like at the moment’s dialog, you’d in all probability just like the content material individuals publication, subscribe on the hyperlink within the present notes.

Ian: And that’s it people. Thanks a lot for listening.